With the release of her forthright autobiography, the Godlike Genius tells us about her rock’n’roll packed life, David Bowie’s penis, Phil Spector holding a gun on her, and the next Blondie album. (Oct 2019)
The Conversation
Hi I'm Gary Ryan and
this is NME and we are here with the
iconic Debbie Harry how are you doing
Debbie I'm hanging in I'm happy to be
here truthfully are you catching up with Iggy
Pop yeah yeah it's not being like Oh
wonderful we you know talked a little
bit and watch the show and he seems you
know very good for him actually
yeah I saw see cuz we're here to sort of
talk about your first proper
autobiography yeah I suppose you had a
chance to read it yeah how many of your
contemporaries had a look at it yet well
First impressions of the book
we don't have any copies yet in the
States so when we got here it was the
first time that we actually saw the book
you knows we've had it in big sheets and
you know seeing the assembled version
was very nice and you know we're all
very happy with the you know the product
how the you know the production came out
and the print and the paper and the
reproductions of the photos and y'all
working it all looks very good so it's
what's supposed to process of writing
the book like for you oh well at first
How the book was written
it was absolutely hateful and then you
know because it was mostly based on
interviews so you know having to I'm not
the type that likes walking down memory
lane a lot so you know that was kind of
who but I'm used to doing interviews
obviously so you know a lot of it was
like that but then later on I started
you know sort of making up my own little
compositions and stories and I I really
like that I like doing that
not so sure I like being edited okay
which I'm sure you can relate
yeah how'd you phone just kind of
forgotten anything oh when you what kind
The most difficult part
of over it or what was the most
difficult part you think to over of the
vote I guess the the part that sort of
was between 1982 and an 85 that was a
sort of a rough patch for for all of us
and when you look back at that tough
times you know fortunately it's some
kind of a way to save your you know it's
like your brain takes you to a safe
place in a way you know so you're
looking back at things that might have
been particularly horrible at the time
but you're sort of it's made a little
bit easier you know with with time you
know a little bit of distance so that
that was that was alright I mean you're
going right back to the start you know
you talk about how you're adopted yeah
and how its of its and you didn't ever
feel truly comfortable you also felt
different murals trying to fit in when
Finding your tribe
do you think you found your tribe do you
think you ever kind of found your tribe
as the modern parlance goes yeah well
yeah I mean you know you sort of make
your way and I think a lot of teenagers
feel that way and it's it's process of
maturing and growing up you know you're
you're trying to find out who you are
what you're capable of and and what
you're you know where your best fit in
and what you sort of would like to do
and I've been very fortunate in that
respect you know if I did find I did
find my way it didn't it doesn't happen
instantly or overnight for everyone some
people you know are very lucky and they
they certifying themselves in their 20s
but it took me a little bit longer I
mean they took about it's changed you
see she needs Debbie Hari
yeah does sound really quite wild and
then you really paint this evocative
picture
like kind of pre-internet yeah and
there's a great story about and kamyelle
oh yeah but hang over there yeah what
Tinder
was that kinda like you know get saw
paint a picture was a sort of tinder
Pretender
kind of thing I don't know I guess there
was a little more Street action you know
so it amounts to the same thing I think
that it's you know sort of hormone
driven you know fooling around and you
know trying to you know find finding
friends or boyfriends or whatever I
think it was for me mmm it was pretty
much all in and fun and kind of naughty
which was great so yeah I guess it is
kind of like that I know I have friends
who you know who do that you know very
regularly okay yeah I haven't tried it
no be tempted still put on a kind of
blank profile for someone else and not
look but well no I actually haven't I I
sort of wonder you know I think people
are really brave but I think that you
know it's it's just the way it is and
you know once you accept that in its it
you know part of your social life or the
way that you meet people or have sex or
whatever that you know that's perfectly
fine that's kind of a really shocking
story early on in the book about body
rich oh yeah I'm a band of turning up to
your house when your fingers 12 years
old well yeah you know I I don't know
exactly how old we were I know that we
weren't really teenagers yet my cousin
is a year older than me and our families
actually her father and my father were
brothers so you know we were sort of
having a family kind of vacation and
Cape Cod Massachusetts which is you know
very a fun place to go lots of great
restaurants and bars and clubs and of
course we were much too young to do that
so we would just sort of wander up and
down
the strip you know and you know look at
all the people and look at the
restaurants and everything and you know
pawn lipstick and be real dangerous and
that's how we met buddy because he well
when you read that you trying to be
specially tried to pick you up yeah you
know we were flirting and I don't mean
to you know indicate that it you know he
was you know some kind of predator or
anything like that you know he was with
a friend of his and you know we were you
know being not bad girls but trying to
be sophisticated in our way in our silly
way and he must have known that we were
we were quite young and it was all kind
of very funny actually
I mean you created Blondie's this kind
of character yeah anyway when you first
started out and you see in the book that
you saw blondie as a sort of transsexual
Gender
character now in retrospect do you think
of terms like you know genderqueer
and non-binary had been around then that
you would have thought identified as it
or perhaps I don't know if I made myself
as clear as I possibly could with that
because I always felt that lyrically you
know with the songs that I was trying to
represent you know the guys in the band
as well as as myself so in that respect
I guess it's a little confusing but I
was trying to you know speak for all of
us and I always felt that since you know
all my life you know I was always called
Debbie or Harry
alright so you know I you know I
embodied this myself and and it's just
just the way it is or the way it wasn't
probably still it yeah so I I don't know
I I I never really had any problems with
that and I'm I'm always surprised when
you know people have a fear or a
frustration about their combination of
sexualities I think we do better
recognizing both you know within
ourselves then this kind of you talk a
bit about sexism of that first blondie
album there's an outfit we're
essentially issue without you know a bra
on and the top secret top yeah and you
know you were quite pissed off rightly
Exploitation
so about that at the time yeah I mean I
was shocked then and I was told
something different I think that that's
really what the problem was and that I
was told I was reassured that the photo
would be cropped and that it wouldn't be
used you know below a certain point so
when it was I think I think the
frustration for me was that I haven't
been treated fairly
not that they hadn't said oh well we're
gonna use the full shot they said oh no
we're gonna crop it and then they didn't
so I think that was the rub more than
the fact that you could see you know my
breasts know your ass off exploitation
anyway as many think you rightly say in
the book how would you like it if I
showed your balls on there yeah yeah
that did not get a good response you
know you've been in the new Holsey video
for example yeah I mean talking to
Sex sells
female pop stars no how much do you
think has changed in terms of sexism in
the industry and women and how much
really does need to still change what
challenges do you think we still need to
face I don't know you know for fun if I
want to say that or even think that way
because it's just a competitive you know
business and industry and I've said it
many times in the past sex sells and
that's part of what you know showbiz is
about and especially in rock I mean it's
always been that way
and I think that's logical and lovely
and exciting and you know why we love it
and as part of you know since it's
always been sort of more of a youth
youth movement you know that
it makes perfect sense you know that
this is you know your most sexual period
of your life
and now most of the most of the songs
themselves are about you know meeting
somebody finding somebody losing
somebody it's always about some kind of
love interest that there are of course
there are other songs that are not you
know subject wise but I mean if you look
at the if you look at the long list of
songs lyrically they're mostly about you
know love or sex so suppose you know
you'd assume that someone like Patti
Smith would have been really supportive
of you at the start but there's a bit in
the book where she tries to steal claim
Patti Smith
work she she walks into auditions yeah I
don't know what I really know I still
don't know to this day know what was
going on there
but it was funny and Patti was patty you
know she's she's I don't I can't really
describe her as being masculine but I
think that she definitely embodied a
strength that you know was intellectual
was feminine and masculine as you know
we all did too you know I guess to sort
of survive in that particular period I
can't imagine you know Halsey coming off
that way hmm
I mean I think the girls that come come
out now are pretty overtly you know
women or feminine or whatever what's her
name
st. Vincent you know it's one of my
favorites okay I think she's such a
talent and so beautiful but again I you
know we all have our own we all have the
sophistication that's that's coming down
now is that everybody really has their
own sense of balance in their own sexual
skin and that's really where it's at you
know but I can't really say that it has
anything to do with me
it really has to do with our
understanding and the way that you know
people speak out about who they are and
what they are the standards have changed
and that's that's perfectly the right
way as far as I'm concerned I mean an
equally transgressive as blondie was boy
and you know your first kind of tour
proper tour was with Bowie and Iggy Pop
right and there's a great kind of story
in the book you know where you give him
some drugs and I just he just randomly
gets the stick out what what was kind of
going through your mind when that
happened well I was surprised and
flattered actually and you know I mean
who wouldn't I mean this is like the
know the perfect rock-and-roll story
really and if it was David Bowie you
know what could be better because it's
the way in the book you kind of brush
over these things almost as like an
aside yeah it has anything shocked you
is anything kind of capable of shocking
you well I mean I was I don't know if I
was shocked but I was certainly
surprised to you know see David with his
you know showing his penis but I thought
it was a very gentlemanly gesture in a
way it wasn't like he was jumping all
over me he was just so this is my penis
very nice even kind of you you went and
met Phil Spector other starters yeah and
that song is insane when you can I mean
held a gun on you at one point well I
think that you know you
that was his sort of I guess his
fascination it's tragic the way things
turned out for him because being such a
genius and such a you know a frontrunner
and an inventive producer it seems it
seems awful you know what happened and
I honestly wish that didn't happen he
obviously made a terrible mistake
yeah could you kind of see the signs
were there when you were there they
would end like that for a long no I
think he has to hear a wild you know
side to him and a reputation like I
can't really venture a guess on on what
he was thinking I think it was sort of
like a game for him and know sometimes
games turned out badly there's kind of a
theme in the book as well about her the
record company prevents you from doing a
lot of things you want to do for example
you know they said that you can do Blade
Runner and then that became enough seen
massive film yeah is there any you look
Blade Runner
back on that they stopped you doing and
you just think god I wish I coulda done
that well yeah I mean Blade Runner is a
prime example that would have been far
out to do that I love that I love that
picture the business has changed the
nature of the business has changed where
you know there is a lot of more
crossover and sort of nourishment from
both sides you know so it it has changed
it's become much more sophisticated I
sort of was on the the tip the very hip
edge of that you know moving in that
direction what can I say musically you
know Wednesday you kind of blow in the
album going to be coming out you know
you start walking on it or no we haven't
actually gotten to the studio I think
we're sort of assembling some ideas and
I think we have another song from Johnny
Marr which I'm very happy about and you
know Mad Catz Bowen who is our keyboard
player he writes he's you know always
writing so and Chris has a couple of
tracks that he's sort of ready to go
with and I've been scribbling a little
bit and trying to put some ideas
together so we haven't actually been
into the studio to put down any basics
or anything like that but I think we're
we're talking to John Congleton again
because he was wonderful to work with
just talking to you you're gonna be
working with can
as well a Long Point that was kind of
talking apparently he phoned you off for
something oh right yeah we did speak
with Connie yeah
what was what how did that conversation
Fan art
go oh he's very sweet you know it was
very nice and that you know we forget
this song that we were talking about if
his you know that we really liked and it
was just yeah nothing ever came of it
but it it was you know it was part of
just a friendly conversation and that
was that is it still something that
could happen you think probably not but
I you know how can you know yeah how
could you tell Isabel you use a lot of
fan art to illustrate the bit yes well
which is just such a great idea like
well over the years what's been the
weirdest thing her fans ever given you
you mean st. bizarre things well I got
it it's kind of tragic and sad but sweet
the same time I got a package in the
mail with a letter and it had a braid a
ponytail what we call a freak flag okay
and my frequent yeah I'm a freak flag
so a guy sent me his freak flag because
he was going to jail
oh right yeah I thought that was kind of
a a little creepy but you know sad and
you know strange and kind of raw you
know I don't know what it hit me a lot
of different ways there's a real trend
at the moment as well for music biopics
yes you know it seems to me the blondie
would be absolutely perfect for a biopic
Thanks is there any sort okay bit is it
something like C - no no I'm not so sure
Final thoughts
that I'm totally fond of them okay I
think that you know sometimes they
really missed the mark let's face it you
know the the sort of way that the the
industry works in the way that the
artists work within the industry it's
all very similar the only thing that's
different is the personality of the band
or the artist so when you're telling
that story
it's it's difficult to make it read
interestingly because it is the same old
story only different you know different
performers different faces but it
basically is the same story you start
out at one level and you work your way
up and you know your music becomes
popular so on and so forth and and
somebody dies perhaps or somebody keeps
living and working but it is pretty much
the same story and that's the snag point
for me because okay you can just you
could interchange you know if you just
say take out an out and put somebody
else in you know and it's the same story
and super very very can finally and you
know to help any ambitions that you
still want to fulfill well yeah I mean I
would like to keep writing and keep
recording I don't know if I can see
anything that's I haven't really done
except you know sort of interstellar
space travels perhaps I mean it's still
something I don't know
I little things like you know driving a
racecar or you know parachuting from a
plane you know that kind of sort of
exciting adrenaline you know junkie kind
of thing
I don't know well thank you so much you
didn't interviews mean absolute joy
speaking to you thank you and yes Cheers